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Visit Jason-16692's column >>

JASON-16692

Home Page
I'm a blogger, CEO of Weblogs, Inc, and a SVP at AOL
Articles Posted: 1  Links Seeded: 10
Member Since: 11/2005  Last Seen: 8/29/2009

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Put a Seed Newsvine link on your own site

Time to start a business or not? - The Jason Calacanis Weblog

Seeded on Thu Mar 30, 2006 1:27 PM EST
Read ArticleArticle Source: calacanis.com
technology, internet, video, web, startup, flickr, web20, 37signals, basecamp
Seeded by Jason-16692
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Is it time to start a Web 2.0 business or not? Executives from Flickr, 37Signals, and Weblogs, Inc. debate the pros and cons.

  • Enjoy this article? Help vote it up the 'Vine.

Published to:

  • Jason-16692's Column, All of Newsvine
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  • Public Discussion (9)
Josh PeekDeleted
Mark Jeffrey

This was good article ...

  • 1 vote
Reply#2 - Thu Mar 30, 2006 9:31 PM EST
Jason-16692

Hey Josh... so is it wrong to submit your own stuff? I mean, isn't the point to share you writing?

  • 1 vote
Reply#3 - Thu Mar 30, 2006 10:27 PM EST
Josh PeekDeleted
Jason-16692

Josh: Hmmm... I'm not sure that is a fair rule. That rule is designed so that Newsvine gets all the traffic and blogger gets none.

Feels a little heavy handed to me... "You can give us your content for free, but you can't link to your blog."

The community sould restate that one... self promotion is fine in a social news site because the community will smack down bad stuff and only promote good stuff. If my blog post is good folks will vote it up, if I link to something that sucks folks will ignore me.

Also, the rule is so impossible to enforce since a) I could ask a friend to post my stuff and in return post their stuff and b) I could just start a second account and post my stuff.

Better to let the audience vote stuff up and down and not try to suck bloggers content off their blogs.

  • 1 vote
Reply#5 - Fri Mar 31, 2006 11:26 AM EST
Rob Goodlatte

Jason,

Interesting article, but I disagree with a few points.

I would say it's a bad time to start a business if you're a businessman - it's a great time to start a business if you're a technologist who can start building a product in your spare time.

I think you're dead wrong on VC funding and on charging money for services. Way too many undeserving companies are going after VC funding, and I for one think that's one reason why the ship will sink. If you can build a sustainable small business by investing your expertise and time into building a product without taking outside money, you're much better off than taking a few grand or a few million to develop a product that might not pay off on the same scale you've invested. If you invest the minimum amount of sans-VC money and the maximum amount of time you can afford, all of your positive cash flow is profit (and furthermore, it's YOUR profit, and you don't have a board of directors bitching at you).

If you're building small useful tools a la 37signals it's unreasonable to think a big goliath competitor fueled by millions in VC is going to try to steal your cake. It's rather silly to get VC funding to build products to compete with 37signals, for a few reasons. First, I think VC funding on the web is for assembling a team to develop a product from scratch, not for blowing on advertising or for products that already exist but want to "go big". Advertising on the web has it's uses to be sure, but the current web atmosphere doesn't require you to spend money to get the word out. Look at Newsvine. As far as I know, it's mostly spread through word-of-mouth via blogs, digg, podcasts, etc. Second, 37signal's products are small in scope - low investment, low profit (compared to a goliath such as your company weblogsinc). It's just bad business to think that by investing a ton in a competing product to a 37signals product, you're going to make proportionally more profit. You can't always widen a target market by force. Sometimes you have to be small to make a profit in a business.

Now, you might argue that the big VC-funded goliath is not interested in charging and instantly turning a profit, but is looking to be acquired or to get the advertising formula done correctly. Advertising is fine, and it's really the same thing as charging. I think people are willing to pay a small fee instead of paying indirectly via ads. Obviously not as many, but I don't have a problem with having a small company. As far as acquisitions are concerned, I think that the expectation of being bought-out is the single biggest reason why all these VC-funded companies will fail. If you can't cash in without being scooped up by Google or AOL, then why would AOL or Google wan't to acquire a company that is only going to lose them money? Obviously there are reasons they acquire (to plug myself, I wrote an article on Newsvine about it here), but for the most part, it's just being silly to build an M&A business.

M&A businesses are crap, and they're pushed by businessmen. 95% of them will fail. But small businesses like 37Signals, like Shaun Inman's Mint, and even digg when it first launched, that made by technologists in their spare time without massive funding, have a very good chance of success.

And as far as competition, I'm not scared of it whatsoever. I'm building an app right now that will have one or two major competitors when it launches, but I could care less because I think those products are crap. And besides, I'm only wasting MY time by building it, not spending other people's money who expect me to make them rich.

And not to sound like a parrot, but you really shouldn't post your own stuff to Newsvine. Obviously you don't need the traffic because you're Jason Calacanis, but there is good reason behind the rule. Plenty of people on digg game the system to drive traffic towards their site to promote their product. The idea behind the rule is to protect journalistic integrity. If I was Sony, or AOL, or Microsoft, I would love to game Newsvine to drive traffic and buzz to a new product. Just like in papers like the New York Times, gaming Newsvine to promote a product or site is not allowed. I'm not saying that was your intent with this post, and I certainly believe that some self-posts are okay, but I think the rule exists because the grey area is quite large thanks to things like google ads.

Anywho, sorry for the long-ass comment.

Cheers.

  • 2 votes
Reply#6 - Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:25 PM EST
Josh PeekDeleted
Mike D.

Jason: The rule is there to discourage self-promotion. Self-promotion can be quite a grey area, as you know, so we had to put a line in the sand to make clear what is ok and what is not ok. I understand your desire to point traffic at your blog, which contains a lot of good stuff obviously, but the philosophy is that if your stuff is good, someone will do that for you anyway.

I've had my posts appear on sites like Digg and Slashdot before, and sure, they send firehoses of traffic to your site, but the it's much more meaningful to me because someone else nominated it to be there in the first place. My nomination is simply publishing my content. For it to get linked further after that should be the result of other people.

You're right in that this policy (and all policies) can be abused, but hey, that's life in a democratized medium. We can only set what we think are reasonable philosophies, then let our community judge whether or not they are reasonable, and finally let the community police the policies (as has happened very politely on this post). So far, there haven't been too many objections to the self-seeding rule.

Always open to discuss modifications though. Do let us know if you have suggestions.

  • 3 votes
Reply#8 - Fri Mar 31, 2006 4:52 PM EST
Jason-16692

>> So far, there haven't been too many objections to the self-seeding rule.

OK, so... let's put the self-promotion rule to the test--do a top level survey asking if folks should be able to seed their own work.

I'm interested in hearing what people think.

best j

  • 1 vote
Reply#9 - Sat Apr 1, 2006 12:17 PM EST
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